$5000 Entry fee. Why I won't be at the worlds.

[LongDownunder]

Firstly I'm going to use this as a big thankyou for all the guys that hang out in the chatroom most nights and have to put up with my frustrations at the qualifying situation that occurs down here in Australia. You guys really help keep me going and will ensure my continued involvement in the sport.

On the weekend I was fortunate enough to come second in the Aussie Long Drive Championships out of a field of 23 open hitters. I was dead unlucky to be beaten on the last ball of the matchplay final, but thats a whole different story.

Now is where the story gets kind of gets interesting. I will try and be as factual as possible.

Long Drivers of Australia has a franchise agreement with the LDA and at the start of the season pays an amount of money to secure one of more spots to the world finals. In the case of the guy down here he chooses to pay for 1 spot. This means that even if we have 125 open hitters at the finals we are competing for 1 spot.  In 04, we had over 40 open hitters! At the end of the season the guy from Long Drivers of Australia then has the opportunity to buy more spots from the LDA, which is currently being negotiated but as of Sunday at the completion of the event, my spot was going to cost me $5000 US. I have met the qualifying standards set out by the LDA for North Amercia where one spot for each 10-12 hitters is offered, but apparently we work under a different system.

What is glaringly obvious to me, is that the same spots the alternates in America are hoping to be offered are the spots being offered for sale overseas. If I choose to pony up $5k, one of the US alternates miss out. Regardless of how many spots Long Drivers of Australia chooses to buy a few "extra" spots will be made available after the event, to the highest bidder. I was given 48 to 72 hours from the end of our event Sunday to make my decision and to raise this money.

I understand the system and am frustrated beyond belief at the moment. Ultimately the people capable of gaining money most quickly will be able to buy these spots, for as much as people would like to think these places are available on merit it is not the case. I understand the LDA is a business and they must make money, but what is even more staggering is that the $5k quoted to me has some percentage of discount built in!

I can not afford to pay either the LDA or Long Drivers of Australia 5 grand to enter and then incur another 5-7 thousand dollars of travel expenses etc etc.

All the best to those that do make it this year but I thought it important for those of you over the pond to have in insight into what we go through. We have 6 or 8 hitters well capable of putting up a good showing at the world finals but due to our geographic disadvantage this will never happen, we work harder than you can imagine to try and secure our 1 precious spot.

Thanks for taking the time to consider this.

Matt McDonald.

[Beowulf]

Firstly I'm going to use this as a big thankyou for all the guys that hang out in the chatroom most nights and have to put up with my frustrations at the qualifying situation that occurs down here in Australia. You guys really help keep me going and will ensure my continued involvement in the sport.

On the weekend I was fortunate enough to come second in the Aussie Long Drive Championships out of a field of 23 open hitters. I was dead unlucky to be beaten on the last ball of the matchplay final, but thats a whole different story.

Now is where the story gets kind of gets interesting. I will try and be as factual as possible.

Long Drivers of Australia has a franchise agreement with the LDA and at the start of the season pays an amount of money to secure one of more spots to the world finals. In the case of the guy down here he chooses to pay for 1 spot. This means that even if we have 125 open hitters at the finals we are competing for 1 spot.  In 04, we had over 40 open hitters! At the end of the season the guy from Long Drivers of Australia then has the opportunity to buy more spots from the LDA, which is currently being negotiated but as of Sunday at the completion of the event, my spot was going to cost me $5000 US. I have met the qualifying standards set out by the LDA for North Amercia where one spot for each 10-12 hitters is offered, but apparently we work under a different system.

What is glaringly obvious to me, is that the same spots the alternates in America are hoping to be offered are the spots being offered for sale overseas. If I choose to pony up $5k, one of the US alternates miss out. Regardless of how many spots Long Drivers of Australia chooses to buy a few "extra" spots will be made available after the event, to the highest bidder. I was given 48 to 72 hours from the end of our event Sunday to make my decision and to raise this money.

I understand the system and am frustrated beyond belief at the moment. Ultimately the people capable of gaining money most quickly will be able to buy these spots, for as much as people would like to think these places are available on merit it is not the case. I understand the LDA is a business and they must make money, but what is even more staggering is that the $5k quoted to me has some percentage of discount built in!

I can not afford to pay either the LDA or Long Drivers of Australia 5 grand to enter and then incur another 5-7 thousand dollars of travel expenses etc etc.

All the best to those that do make it this year but I thought it important for those of you over the pond to have in insight into what we go through. We have 6 or 8 hitters well capable of putting up a good showing at the world finals but due to our geographic disadvantage this will never happen, we work harder than you can imagine to try and secure our 1 precious spot.

Thanks for taking the time to consider this.

Matt McDonald.

WOW!!!!

I had no idea!  Sorry for your situation.

I can't help ya, but I do feel for you.

Shawn

[magoo]

Have your own finals or move

[LongDownunder]

5 Grand??  Sounds like a god deal.  Ask Pat Dempsey how much he spent in 1999, I believe it was 22K...and that was 8 years ago.  But it paid off, he is now a World Champion.  I know there were a few years where I spent over 10K.

See, here in the US there are so many good competitors that you often have to try many, many times to get in.  I don't mean to be insensitive to your situation, but there are at least 50 guys on this forum that will spend more than that, or already have this year.  Rick T. if you are out there, what did you spend this year?  I see the LDA gave updates on your travels.

I fully understand and appreciate your honesty.

I am also in the situation of having competed for 3 full seasons and have run up in the order of 20 plus K in travel expenses. This year I've had to wind things back a little for this exact reason. I have no doubt there will be dozens of guys that will miss out by one spot and I fully understand how much that hurts and that they're in a similar situation to me.

I'm not looking for handouts, sympathy anything but I thought people should know spots can be bought and that they are not always handed out strictly on merit.

[aldagolf]

Matt
For you and all open hitters there is another chance. The SUPER QUALIFIER "Last Chance Edition"
October 20-21 in PRIMM, Nevada (35 minutes from Las Vegas) 2 spots in WLDC guaranteed and up to 4 depending on entries. So come to PRIMM qualify, and go directly to the WORLD'S

866-387-1888
Jack

[Cleverdon]

Hey Matt,

Congratulations on finishing 2nd at the Aussie Championships.

I am sympathetic to the situation that has been presented to you but I will tell you right now I will happily pay the LDA 5 grand at the end of each years world championships for a spot in the following years event.

There is alot of alternates out there that have zero chance of getting a spot based on numbers.  At least you have been given the choice.

Just another way to look at it.

Hope all is well
Brett

[Snake]

Hey Matt

I think that a lot of the North American guys responding to your post don't quite understand the situation that other counteries have to go through to get to the worlds. Yes, many of the hitters from the US and Canada spend some big bucks traveling around to compete. So do many of the Europeans, Australians and New Zealanders. That isn't the point here. The point is that as non-Americans our entry fee's into the worlds are almost 10 times that of our North American counterparts. That is not fair! Art has done a fantastic job in raising the profile of the sport and changing the North American Long Drive Championships in the World Championships. But the rules are biased against us foreigners. It really isn't a true world championships. It still is just the North American championships with a few foreigners chucked in for interest. There is no doubt that the top hitters in the US are as good as you can get. There is also quite a few hitters that sneak into the worlds who quite frankly would not make it to either the Australian, New Zealand or UK/European finals.

Lets have a true world championships by making it the same rules for everyone.

Anyway, I know my comments may anger some of my US counterparts, but if you're going to call it a world championships, let the world be represented in appropriate numbers.

On a final note, it's a pity Matt can't attend the worlds. You've been a consistent performer on the Aussie circuit including that day in Adelaide when you beat me with a lazy 381m (417y) drive. You certainly wouldn't be out of place at the Worlds.

Regards

Snake

[roberterin]

longdownunder, and anyone else playing a sport (ecspecially an world recognized sport) that happens to be reading these posts. First off i feel your pain, when i was growing up there were things i was good at, and MAYBE even better at than others at BUT could not compete in because of the lack of funds. By reading this ongoing posting i can't help but to ask, "didnt you know getting into this it would cost you HUGE $$$$$$ to get to the worlds if you ever did get a chance?". Not everyone has the money to fly around the world to hit little white balls, some people do, but cant get the time off work, or maybe they have a family that relies on their only income to survive. Do you know any buisness owners in your country that would sponsor you?...or atleast help you?. From the first step to the worlds (ill never get there mind you) i figure it would cost me alone atleast $6000CAN, and being there ill loose an additional $45 an hour for a week and burn one week of holiday's, not to mention loosing my bonus for 50hrs at $75 and making the currency conversion i'd be FU*&^%!. It sucks that everyone can't be equal and maybe you would friggin win...i know i'd love to watch you on T.V. BUT this is whats up, unless they move the venue from VEGAS/USA and ALL countries have a turn hosting the BIG ONE you and other LD long distance competitors without the funds will be S.O.L. But think of it this way, how many USA/CAN/ and EURO's would actually go to the WLDC if the Aussie's hosted it??......... i wish i was rich cause id send you and everyone else who can't afford it a ticket.

good luck, but sometime life sucks.

[LongDownunder]

"didnt you know getting into this it would cost you HUGE $$$$$$ to get to the worlds if you ever did get a chance?"..

Yes. I knew it was a huge committment and much like many/ most I have stuck a heap of funding into this sport. For being able to do that, I'm very fortunate. I have put money aside, specifically to make the trip to the worlds had it eventuated.

What I think pi$$ed me more than anything was in '05 I came 7th and in '06 I came 6th in our Aussie finals. No mention of a $5000 buy in was mentioned directly to me either year! Merit or otherwise, I was never actually offered the opportunity. This year I come second and spectators and other hitters came to me asking if I would be going to the worlds and I really didn't quite know. Approx 30 mins after the final finished I then became involved in a conversation along the lines of "who wants to go?, if we can get enough people we can probably get a discount" with the LD of Australia owner.

If I understand correctly, I was supposed to be given the chance 1st and then it should be passed on down the line, strictly according to merit. A week after the fact I'm convinced this is the directive from the LDA and it may not have been followed.

Much as Brett said, if I know I can pay $5k US for my spot and not have to go through the heartbreak of missing out by 1 ball, I would do it too, but not after the fact....and not in a group of people being offered  "who wants to go?" see if you can raise some money.

I have no issue with the fact that the LDA needs to recoup some money for my spot and that they put that figure at $5k and although it seems a little excessive such is life.

Just as a matter of interest, if someone hits at one local and one district in thier home town town and qualifies, that is their good luck. Isn't it?

M.

[Snake]

Hi Roberterin

You make a number of good points which I agree with. I guess my main point was that the rules should be the same for everyone regarding entry into the Worlds i.e. same entry fee for all. I would imagine that a true World championships should strive to get the best competitors from around the world. The current set up is biased towards the US resulting in a disproportionally large number of Americans. Anyway, my goal is just to increase awareness to our plight.

Regards

Snake

[roberterin]

snake, im sure not new to golf....and sports in general, i AGREE with all yous hole-heartedly. They LDA doesnt seems to give a leaning ear to what is its backbone.....the competitors.!!!!!!!!!!!. See its always in sports the player who get screwed, the govering body aslong as its generating profits and going forward dont listen to the "minority" in this case or any other that will arise. The sport of LD will NEVER grow beyond its own ego unless the players get larger than the "game" (you think Gretzky in the NHL has any say with the commisioner?, or Tiger in PGA, or Jordan in NBA?...how would the LDA listen to ZUBACK?...probaly not like these guys right?). We all know who put the sport of LD on the map, BUT when hes gone (from competition) this sport will fade. The LDA like any other buisness has to generate monies to go forward, by making these eronious "buy- ins" proposals ($5000) even if you DON'T qualify legitly tells me the futures not very bright from a buisness perspective, or they just completely have no buisness ethics or morals. Like i said in a previous posting the players should have their own "fairness" comittee, put together with BIG NAMES to back the idea's and conflicts with competitors.....some type of "competitors union" that brings issues to the LDA infront of a board that they have to address. Right now they could charge and do whatever the hell they want and good competitors like "longdownunder" who might be able to propell the sport forward get screwed. Its like biteing the hand that feeds you, the players should stand up and do something TOGETHER!!!, it would be hard to televise a LD championship if noone shows up right?. They should also look at maybe every 3 years or so moving it around from counrty to country?..it would do nothing but creat MASSIVE exposure for the sport as a whole. BUT MAYBE, just maybe the "tax free state" of Las Vegas Nevada has some magnatism for maximizing their profits and were all just talking about this stuff for nothing.

think about it?.........stick together.....just cause your not getting screwed (not directed to "anyone") this time around, doesnt mean we should look the other way when someone else does!!!!!

Good Luck to everyone.....and KILL IT!!!!!!

Rob Brouse

[lda_oz]

I understand the feelings being expressed during these posts, but wish to clarify a few points:

1. There is NO conspiracy by the LDA against international competitors. The LDA is trying to grow the sport internationally.

2. Whereas the LDA collects a proportion of all entry fees from all qualifying events in the US, the only income it receives from internationally is from the contracted entry fee which is in effect a type of franchise fee. It is then up to the international party running the events to cover the fees and run the national championships. This agreement and payment is done many months prior to either the World or Australian finals. This year for Australia a single open male entry fee was contracted and paid for at the appropriate time. The contract allowed for up to 3 positions but these were meant to be agreed and paid for at the same time, many months before.

3. My mistake was in asking if competitors (BASED ON ROLLDOWN OF POSITIONS) wished to self fund (through their own sponsors etc)  to take up these additional spots IF they were still available. So after the finals I asked for expressions of interest so that I knew what to ask LDA for.

The rolldown procedure was clearly indicated in the player packets sent to the Australia finalists: (Section 6)
******************************
World Championship Qualifying
The Winner of the Open Men?s RE/MAX Australian Long Drive Championships final will receive entry to the RE/MAX World Long Drive Championships to be held in Mesquite, Nevada in October of this year.  All other expenses including travel and accommodation are the responsibility of the competitor. The competitor must confirm that he is taking this place within 5 days. Then a roll down will occur based on places in the Open Men?s final. Other competitors must be ready to confirm immediately otherwise the roll down will continue.

Extra spots (2 maximum) may be available for the open men. These would be on the basis of the competitor paying all costs including the entry fee. Competitors interested in obtaining these extra spots are to notify their intentions to the event director immediately following the finals. Once availability of spots being available and the cost, the places will be offered on the following basis:
?   2nd place, 3rd Place down to 10th Place in the open final
?   1st to 10th place on the national rankings
?   1st to 10th place on the Australasian Tour

***************************************

LDA however want no part of competitors paying their own international fees.

In Australia as with other countries we would love to have a big team competing at the worlds. This is what we are working towards. It needs to be budgeted and funded but it will happen.

Congratulations Matt on your great 2nd placing. Also congratulations and good luck to Brent who will be our representative at the world finals. Also a big best wishes to all other competitors going to the worlds, it will be an experience you will always remember.

Tony Commins
Long Drivers of Australia

[Snake]

Hi Tony

Thanks for getting involved in this conversation.

I still need you to clarify one point. Given what you said in your post, why does it cost so much for a competitor to self-fund? How much is this "contracted entry fee" charged by the lda and does it vary from what a site in the US would pay?

I know the LDA need to make some money out of franchising. I mean it doesn't make business sense for the LDA to just give away places in the World Championships. But beyond the business interests of just a few is the sport of long drive itself. Wouldn't it be great to have a World Championships featuring the 100 best hitters on the globe. If you look at any other major sporting contest (World Cup, Olympics, etc) you know you are watching the best player/competitors there are, not just those who could afford a franchise. Anyway, I'm getting way ahead of myself. Currently the LDA is a private company, not a true international sporting body, so much of what I seek is just a far off dream. Ultimately it would be great to have an internation long drive association that administers the sport and conducts World Championships, not a private company (which is the situation we have now).

Let me finish by saying this - I love this sport. I love competing in it and I love watching it. I'm not trying to be negative by what I've said above, I just want the best for long drive.

Snake

[PaulK]

I sympathize with the position you are in but based on the info that Tony has given it appears that the only fees the LDA gets from international organizations is a one time sponsorship per spot at the Worlds.

If you look at the US numbers per spot opened up you get a similar amount of revenue per spot.

Lets say a District has 30 competitors.
Based on a average number of District qualifiers per local hitter that equates to about 7*30 = 210 local tries * $40 = 8400.
Plus District fees 30 * 125 = 3750.

Total revenue = 12150.

My District had 31 hitters this year and two spots to Mesquite.  So that is ~$6000 per spot.  

Some of that revenue gets shared with the local clubs/district sites etc.. but it seems that the revenue per spot in the US is very similar to that offered to the international locations.  (Please excuse any minor discrepancies in my numbers...the calcs are supposed to be an approximation.)

Sad as it may be money has to fuel this sport.  The LDA does have to make a profit.  If not, there would be no LDA and this sport would not be available for all of us to compete in and enjoy.

I hope that in the future the international teams can get increase sponsorship and help grow this sport.  Also, congrats on your 2nd place.  That is a great achievement and I do feel for you in your position.

Paul K

[LongDownunder]

What would be ideal is if international areas could be treated as districts rather than seperate franchises.

Surely the serious hitters worldwide would rather pay $40 US at locals and have a 1 in 10-11 shot at the worlds come districts than the current situations and possibly it would be better for all concerned. Remove the fact that only Aussies can hit in Australia etc etc and open it up as district 19 or whatever it would become.

Same as Hawaii and we can all play on the same field.

Common sense?

[PaulK]

That would be great but I think the Australian LDA would have to operate on a revenue structure similar to that of a Local/District and that may not be financially attractive to them.  They are a business as well.

More sponsorship dollars is the way to go if it can be worked out.

Does anyone know if the LDA allows international competitors to compete in the US Districts/Locals?  

You could probably plan ahead to get a cheap flight to the US, attend a few Last Minute Local/District events scheduled a week apart from one another and have a few chances to get to Mesquite that way.

Sh&*( ..I just raised the competition for myself and the other Yanks.

[Snake]

You're both (Matt and Paul) are making good points. I don't begrudge LDA Australia for running as a business and I believe there are win-win situations that are possible i.e. the LDA (both in the US and in Australia) can make their money and grow the sport (the more it grows, the more money for them, and the better competitions we have) and every long driver whether they live in the US, Canada, UK, Europe or Australia has a similar chance of getting to the Worlds (with a similar financial outlay). As Paul suggested, perhaps more sponsorship dollars can help.

The only correction that I would like to point out regarding your earlier post Paul is the calculation of cost. You're probably right in your calculation regarding the revenue per spot. Where the inequality exists is from the point of view of a competitor. If I was a US competitor, I would turn up to my local qualifer and pay around $40 per set of six and hope to get to the districts. At the districts, I would pay $125 (for a non-LDA member, for example). So far this is pretty similar to what happens in Australia. Here's where there is a difference. From this point if I manage to advance to the Worlds, as a US competitor I pay nothing. As an Australia competitor (unless I finish first in all of Australia) I have to pay a few thousand dollars as a fee. In other words. If I finish 2nd or 3rd in the Australian Championships, arguably a toughter gig (at least as a odds ratio) than some of the district qualifers in the US, the cost to me to compete at the worlds is significantly higher than someone who finishes 2nd or 3rd at a district qualifer. And yes, I am able to fly to the States for a week and compete in a couple fo events there but that will be around 4-5 thousand in travel costs. All I'm seeking is a equal chance. Nothing less, nothing more.

On a related point, what should really happen in the Worlds is that it should just be for the top competitors from each country (which is the case for the rest of the world but not the US). In other words, what should happen in the US is that by winning a district qualifer you go to a US Long Drive Championships. Then the top 3 or 5 (or whatever) from the US Championships qualify to go to the worlds to meet the top competitors from the rest of the world. This is the way that most other world championships operate. I realise that these last couple of sentences will not be popular in the US as it means that the number of American competitors at the Worlds would drop down to around a dozen or so across all divisions, but this is the only way to make it a true world championship and not, as stated in a earlier post, a North American Championships with a couple of foreigners thrown in for good measure.

Anyway, all the best to everyone, and as mentioned, I'm sure there are win-win senarios that can see all stakeholders get what they want.

Over and out.

Snake

[aldagolf]

THERE IS ANOTHER CHANCE FOR ALL INTERNATIONAL OPEN HITTERS
The SUPER QUALIFIER "Last Chance Edition"
October 20-21 in PRIMM, Nevada (35 minutes from Las Vegas) 2 spots in WLDC guaranteed and up to 4 depending on entries. So come to PRIMM qualify, and go directly to the WORLD'S

866-387-1888
Jack

Call or email jack@aldagolf.com for more info

[extremeld]

just a thought

how about the number of qualifiers from each area are based on the number of LDA, LDE OR OTHER MEMBERS?

maybe this would encourage commitment from competitors and make the event more interntational

may be utter rubbish, i though it so i typed it

kenny

Lets have a true world championships by making it the same rules for everyone.

If the world championship was set  in any country this issue would always be there for those who travel the furthest.

This sport needs more sponsors in each country who can foot the expenses of its top hitters to travel to any country that hosted the world finals.
If Remax stopped their support and the LDA had no primary sponsor they would fold. That includes all countries who participate in the world finals.
The elite sports talent around the world currently have personal and organizational sponsors who foot their expenses or offer high endorsements and incentives so expenses can be met.  Seems in Matts case there are just not any current sponsors willing to support this sport down there or endorse its elite talent in LD
To me its about getting big business involved  That would help solve the money issue.  Unless you are ranked elite by your accomplishments you should have to shell out the bucks to get to that elite status.
I would like to know if there are any companies or countries that endorse or support their big hitters to travel to the worlds in Mesquite?

Matt any luck seeking sponsorship for yourself   and the LDA with big business down there?
Im sure there are rules for that too.

Mike thanks for the spell check , now we have no excuses