Lifting Weights

[hightee]

Lets end this speed and power debate through this poll once and for all

[AArdvark]

Lifting and http://www.yogaforgolfers.com/

[ceejay]

If I never had started going to the gym I wouldn't be hitting it much harder than bubba watson probably.

[NITROFORCE]

I quit lifting weights three years ago.  Not saying I quit working out though.  If anyone is interested in what I am doing, stay tuned this January and February on Friday nights to see what it is on ABC's "Shark Tank".  It's a secret.

[theultimateswingtrainer]

Shark Tank? way to go Frank! 

[DLR388]

I think u have to hit the gym to compete at this level, flexibility and strength, no substitutes. To Nitroforce.....its goods that u quit lifting 3yrs ago, you may save some cash on shirts, but u got your freakish power from yrs of training, there were no substitutes... so u really need to do explosive training, and lots of flexibility exercises.

[babrad06]

Just lifting.....NO

Doing the right lifts the right way....YES

This is where trained professionals come into play. Been through 3 trainers and you don't know what you don't know is all I have to say. Get with someone who knows what they are doing. Bench pressing, dead lifting, and squatting til you puke will only go so far if you don't have the rest of the pieces.

[NITROFORCE]

I think u have to hit the gym to compete at this level, flexibility and strength, no substitutes. To Nitroforce.....its goods that u quit lifting 3yrs ago, you may save some cash on shirts, but u got your freakish power from yrs of training, there were no substitutes... so u really need to do explosive training, and lots of flexibility exercises.

I would say that yes, genetically, I was gifted with an ectomorph skeletal system which assists in the flexibility department and determined enough for may years to "feel the steel" and got bigger.  I made it to 210 naturally and I learned a lot.  25 yrs training with weights taught me this.  The weights got bigger, I got bigger, but my ability to move faster did not.  I developed an alternative to weights in the form of nitrogen gas pressure for training because of a couple different reasons.  Mostly because I was curious.  Safer and faster high speed, high resistance execution of the same basic exercises that I did with big slow weights, but now what would happen if I trained just as hard. Would I get faster?  The litmus test?  Pick a sport that deals with speed that might have a payoff if it worked.  Golf was logical, long drive was the pinnacle of that sport.  So I became my own lab rat at the ripe age of 40, a pioneering effort so to speak.

Now at 220lbs., 4 years later, bigger, faster, stronger, and able to produce power instead of just strength, I learned its not how much you lift, it's how you produce force that leads to power and speed.  It's duplicating the sports movements under special conditions that produce a desired outcome.
I did not have prior high level sports exposure to develop the talent to do long drive.  That was TOTALLY learned in the last 5 years and it's still developing.  Work in progress so to speak.  I developed the power/speed first, now learning to swing and hit, and soon learn to put it together when it counts.
So,...lifting weights definitely helps, it's a great base of strength ability that can be used to leverage speed.

Stay Tuned!!!!  This winter season on friday night around 8pm eastern time on ABC you'll see me face the "Sharks".  It's already been taped, but I don't know the exact date it will air.  I will get a heads up 2 days before.

Train hard, hit hard, strive to go beyond what you think is possible,...then do the impossible.
Frank

[littlemike777]

Could be either ... if you are 150 lbs soaking wet, and weak, then lifting will only improve. I've lifted for 30 years, at 250 lbs now. If I were able, and got seriously jacked up to 280 through lifting, my LD would go to hell (worse than now if thats possible). If I want to excel in LD, I have to change my training, and drop 10 lbs or so of bodyweight. Actually LD for me would improve if I didn't lift at all.

In other words, there's a point of diminishing returns in lifting for the purpose of LD. There are exceptions to this, there are several beasts in LD that do well

[hightee]

at what point do you personally feel diminishing returns appears? as in how much weight on bench/squat/dead were you doing? thanks

[littlemike777]

Well, I never powerlifted per se for the sole purpose of strength, but for bodybuilding type moves. never did much 1RM, but my best Raw bench was 440 weighing 235 lbs. Was trying to get 500 before I turned 45 just to say I did, then tore a pec major, so now no more heavy bench for me.
Best squats was 505 for 12 reps (below parallel), then blew both knees apart 2 years ago (complete bilateral tendon ruptures), so now, no more heavy squats (315 at most). I have never done much deadlifting, I think 500 or so was all I ever did.
Once you get about as strong as you reasonably can (should), staying in the 12 - 20 rep range on everything I think is the sweet spot when lifting for the purpose of LD. But at any level, all the weights should be second to flexibility and good ball striking.

Again, I always quailify my comments, since I have no credentials in LD to speak of so take my words with a grain of salt.

[NITROFORCE]

The amounts of weights that you(littlemike777) were doing were at one point something I was after.  All my friends that were doing those poundages and higher and suffered the same problems.  Pec tears, bicep tears, total patella separation, rotator cuff problems, crushed discs, etc. were all incurred.  I never got to those weights, and probably lucky I didn't as the same would have happened to me.  Those types of weights actually had me scared that it would end up seriously hurting me.  You probably should start thinking better of doing something when you start saying a little prayer so you won't get hurt playing with weights 2X your body weight or more.  That was one of the reasons I started experimenting with nitrogen gas pressure.  It eliminated the inertia and momentum in the rep phases and provided more safety during the end of the eccentric to concentric ROM that usually created these problems of injury.  I wanted to get bigger but not at the cost of going to see my favorite orthopedic surgeon.

As the experimenting continued, I noticed that no matter what pressure was used, the speed did not cause load fluctuations and it felt safe to contract violently with speed without the notion that all the built up speed is going to rip your arms out of their sockets, or crush you, depending on the direction of the concentric contraction.
So that lead to thinking about what would happen when you COULD combine high speed movement WITH high resistance, and start looking for a training adaptation from said high resistance+high velocity training.  General rule in training is train with fast muscular contractions you learn to be fast.  Train with large output forces that large weights produce, get stronger.  The problem traditionally is that large weights move slow.  So you are right (littlemike777) there is definitely a point of zero return and likely a negative return from lifting weights. 2% of the population never has this problem, only the fortunate few!!!!

And that is why I quit lifting weights and switched to gas pressure.  Safer, faster, more performance.  The TITAN 1000 was born and it feels like Keiser Pneumatic equipment, but the one gym unit can be converted or transformed into several different configurations and over 100 exercises can be performed.  Google Nitroforce TITAN 1000 to see the infomercial that never ran, other assorted videos on the TITAN.

I felt that this direction, had promise in golf and MMA.  I'm too pretty to get into the MMA business so I built some golf swing machines.  The concept worked pretty good.  Good enough to compete in this sport I suppose.  I added 100 yds to my drives, and my test group of golfers added a little over 50 yds in 10hrs of training.  If you want to see what it is you can see it on YouTube (NITROSWING GEN V) or wait to see it on TV this winter on "Shark Tank".  For MMA, I just converted some of the cable movements to striking and such and it is a serious workout.  Check it on YouTube (TITAN 1000 MMA strikes exercises).

For those of you like littelmike777, you have the muscle, you just need to train it for speed.  I would have to guess an "overspeed club" would be the best option to train a new movement pattern sequence that is faster than a regular LD club swing, and see if the recruitment pattern gets learned and then you can put the muscle to work.  Or maybe hitting a heavy bag with a 28 inch aluminum baseball bat will also help with timing and body speed too.  
If anyone has questions about all this stuff, I have done some serious data collecting, hypothesis formulation, and other ideas that support what I am doing, and had to make things that don't exist, you can PM me and I can get you the same links, articles, and research that I have combed over that itches my cranium in the middle of the night.  This stuff will put you to sleep as you are reading it, and once consumed and digested intellectually, you will not be able to sleep.  YOU ARE WARNED!!!!

Chat at ya later,... got to go out in the garage and make some more equipment that I been thinking about.  Or I won't sleep.
Frank

[marwol26]

Fast twitch muscle fibers! Educate yourself on how to activate your Golgi tendon organs, and muscle spindles in the actual muscle tissue itself. That's where you will enhance your speed!

Frank that's right on my friend! Great post

Mark

[theultimateswingtrainer]

Frank is the expert on the Fast twitch muscle fibers.  I'm not getting close to that discussion with him.  You need to find something that recruits the maximum amount of fast twitch muscle fibers in your training.   There is a way to do this, but remember fast twitch muscle fibers cannot be used everyday.  Don't overtrain! 

Golgi tendon what?    "Did i have that for dinner at that chinese place?"    LOL!

[ceejay]

tell that to olympic weightlifters, swingtrainer

[NITROFORCE]

Fast twitch muscle fibers! Educate yourself on how to activate your Golgi tendon organs, and muscle spindles in the actual muscle tissue itself. That's where you will enhance your speed!

Frank that's right on my friend! Great post

Mark

Thanks Mark! 
I would have mentioned Golgi Tendon organs and muscle spindles, but was already boring most with that last post!  Glad to see someone is paying attention.  What I am wondering (Mark, or anyone understanding this stuff) is by training with a different stimulus that has a different torque output going to change the proprioception feedback.  For example, weights if accelerated, have a very high force production at the beginning and then reduces through the range of motion.  N-gas pressure does not exhibit this trait and actually increases through the ROM, which is the opposite.  Since these proprioceptor components are part of the nervous system that interacts with the musculoskeletal system can they be retrained?  Can their thresholds be altered since the tension, length, and position for force production are now different?

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz,....

Frank