Speed VS Strength

[kwojcik]

I wanna trian for long drive but I'm confused about this topic I've been doing weights mixed with isometrics but now I'm seeing this whole slow strength fibers and fast twitch muscle fibers so I'm wondering if weights and strength is just slowing me down and should I jus stick to speed training isometrics ,Core and legs to get a faster swing speed and I know someone on this topic is gonna say what about joe miller I personally think....He's 280lbs of solid muscle he doesn't have to be fast he's gonna bring a ton of force behind the ball I think a person would be much better off with speed training and flexibility over being huge and strong would they not what do you guys think about that

[ceejay]

I'd say heavy strength training at 90%+ of 1RM to maximize your strength/bodyweight-ratio is the best, with a little complementary training to balance the physique out. Including speed training of course.

[Diablo]

Buy a swing speed monitor of some kind and report back to this site whatever progress you have over time, and declare your training regimen.
No way will you get an advice on here that will give you the blueprint of what you will have to do in order to achieve your maximum potential. Not that people will be unwilling to give it to you, the problem is that ( as several vets already have stated in other threads ) we are all individuals and you have to find out what works for YOU. There are no shortcuts. You have to walk the walk.....and it's a big block to walk around....

[kwojcik]

K Ill take both of your opinions into account I have a speed radar and I know we're I stand speed wise I was jus trying to get some opinions from people who had experience with the the training so thanks for your help guys I'll try it out see how it goes

[Diablo]

Ok I'm sorry if I killed the thread. That was not my intention. I just wanted to let you in on the reality check which sooner or later will come haunt you and bite you in the . Better that than engaging in a word feud based on misinterpretations and bruised egoes which only the silent reader can win and chuckle about.

No matter what method you will pursue; we all will be interested in the results. But you must always declare your regimen and your progress (do NOT specify your exact numbers, only relative numbers i.e % ), otherwise whatever you write on here is worth about ¤(#/"/". And that's like trying to pawn ancient smoke in a plastic bag down at the ' pawn star ' pawn shop in Las Vegas: " I don't know how much it is worth.....let me call the local expert and I'll get back to you " ................and then you'd never hear from him again.

I just got clearance from the wife and daughters that they'd " rather go to N.Y than L.V" which means that I'll be going to Mesquite alone next year?!  YAY!!!!

[kwojcik]

Lmfao nice

[1ofsix399]

speed and strength..... if you can maintain and or increase your swingspeed while getting bigger and stronger lift your ass off...  worked for me.... I got my bench over 300 and lost some blubber... and am consistiantly 4-5 mph faster.... I know with more work add more muscle lose the excess fat ill gain 5 mph more....

[kwojcik]

300LB bench is Pre solid congrats on your success how long you been lifting I've been lifting for about 2yrs now started when I was 15 I've slowed down a little bit recently due to injury lol been doing bench for about 6 months now not at 300 yet in time lol I didn't think chest and upper body was all that important compared to lower body ,hands ,forearms and Core but then again it defiantly doesn't hurt I guess

[Rocky]

My 2 cents.
Only 1 person (Jamie) over the last 15 years (and it might be in the history of the sport) has won the World Championship that weighted less than 200 lbs. I would bet the average weight of the champions over the last 15 years is at least 225lbs or more, including Jamie twice for the two titles. My point is muscle and flexiblity are a must to win. Jamie is a freak and i mean this with the upmost respect for him, great kid and family.
Zuback is still the best ever with 5 world titles. He is a power lifter, extremly flexible, lean and still in the 220+lbs range.
You can't just be strong, you can't just be flexible, you can't just have a perfect swing, you can't just have speed without control, you have to have a combination of all.
conclusion: lift hard and to put on muscle, work on core strenght, stretch a lot, get a swing coach, hit a ton of balls and send me a check for my advice after you win. JK about the check. Good luck to everyone next year.
   

[NITROFORCE]

Speed VS Strength

NO STRENGTH = NO SPEED

There is not an inverse relationship.  How will you apply muscular force without muscle??  Where is the speed coming from?  Telekinesis?  The stronger person will always move faster if all things are equal.  Please refrain from saying the more flexible person will be faster.  More muscle, same flexibility?  More muscle will win again.
Isometrics for speed?  might be better than doing nothing.  I have been though the site that claims to produce speed from NON-MOVING muscular contractions.  My professional opinion?  DUMB.  Seriously?  How can someone develop movement pattern skills from NON-MOVEMENTS?  At the very least, weight training addresses training adaptations of muscular hypertrophy AND movement pattern.
Build the muscle, then learn HOW to use it.  Plyometrics will teach your CNS to contract your muscular system in an explosive manner.  Isometrics, functional training, and all that other crap you are reading in Men's Health, and Men's Journal is retarded.  Standing on a BOSU ball with one leg doing bent over doing triceps kick backs with 10 DB's is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen.  Entertainment training is what it is.  Are you going to join the circus?  Or do a golf swing that has 100% more muscular effort combined with 50% more hip, body, shoulder turn, and wrist lag?  
Here is a free workout routine.  Go hard, go heavy, go fast
Deadlifts, pulldowns, DB rows, bench press, shoulder press, cleans- day 1
Leg press, squats, leg curls, Hanging tucks, cable body chops, cable bails day-2
Plyometric training, flexibility/stretching/ROM training - day 3

Hit balls with 95% or more effort often.  Your swing will change and is different in balance and coordination if you hit at less than that.  Why learn to hit at 80-90% when you need to learn force production/power/speed outputs at higher competitive levels.  I have never known, or worked with a high level professional athlete to train at lower levels and the produce abilities needed to be in the 95th percentile of the competition.  NEVER.  Only in off season or in an injury rehab situation.

Yes there are others that defy this training, but they had attributes that were acquired in their adolescent days that contributed to their skill.  (hockey, baseball, tennis, certain track/field events)  However, if these special individuals were to ever to train as hard as the UN-gifted in a sport specific manner they will easily man handle the mere mortals the rest of us are.

[hightee]

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=beat+dead+horse&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=1253&bih=584&tbm=isch&tbnid=HR0YehABiQCdZM:&imgrefurl=http://theplayfulspiritrachel.blogspot.com/2010/04/beating-dead-horse.html&docid=E_WK3iBDSo7y5M&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hSs34-d9qO4/S7lGccO9UJI/AAAAAAAAAGU/m4hjQ9kvFJ0/s1600/beat_dead_horse2.jpg&w=600&h=405&ei=ftzTTpadMYTs2QWF77CiDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=947&vpy=207&dur=3809&hovh=184&hovw=273&tx=53&ty=81&sig=113100168906456281732&page=1&tbnh=167&tbnw=249&start=0&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0

[AArdvark]

From the show that Mr. Wolter put on at the Mile High Shootout and Worlds it would appear Quad Racing is a good method of training.

[swift16]

I am also training to start competing early next year. As far as working out there are a few different things that I focus on. I played Division 1 Baseball at UALR in little rock where we trained as far asur baseball swings on a daily basis. My whole thing with baseball growing up was to swing it as fast as I could while staying under control. In my opinion the baseball swing and the golf swing are very similar just different styles. Basebal is level and golf is the same movement only down.

When you look at baseball and golf the same techniques for the swings go hand in hand. All your power is generated through the Kinetic energy from the ground through your legs, in to your core, and then out through your forearms. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS. It is nice to work on other things but be careful for the guys who say get as big as you can and you will hit it further. This is not true at all. It is true as the saying goes curls are for girls! Yeah they look great but ultimately biceps do nothing for the golf swing. I would really focus on stretching to make sure you stay limber and loose but your main lifts outside of all of your other workouts should focus on core, legs, forearms, and putting all of the energy into one fluid swing.

I always stretch to make sure I stay loose but then I focus on those. Learn how to swing as fast as you can under control and use your body they way you are designed. Some people are very loose and flexible others are not. Find out a swing that works good for you where you can maximize results while using all of your movements in sync with one another and by doing so you are getting max results with the least amount of wasted energy. Good luck to you in your training and maybe we will run into one another at the events. Nate Brown------ Columbia, Missouri

[littlemike777]

Lots of truth in the above post ... big biceps and a thick chest do little for the golf swing ... if anything it can be a hinderance. I have little accomplishments in LD, so take my words with that in mind. I tried to get to worlds 4 or 5 seasons beginning in about 2003, last time in 2009, best I did was make the alternate list at regionals a few times. I'm eligible this year to go as a senior, so I'll be getting back this spring.

But, I have been playing golf since I was 4 or 5, and been lifting fairly heavy weights as hard as my body would allow since about 15 years old (bodybuilding). Never competed powerlifting, but I did get fairly strong for a bb'er, and at the time I was at my strongest (before bad injuries), I had my worst performances in LD. Seemed no matter how hard I stretched and practiced on the range for LD, I just couldn't hit consistent when I was 250 lbs or more (6'1"). When I was training to lean out and got the bodyweight below 240, thus lifts were much lighter, my swing speed and consistency were much greater. I'm bulking again now, but come spring I'll drop 15 - 20 lbs to better my LD chances.
I do know there are some local golfers who tried to get into LD once, small guys, but really good ball strikers, but I always beat them in locals. The last year or so they have gotten into Crossfit training, and are hitting the ball past everybody around here, me included. The main focus in that training is core, like from the abs down to the knees. So, I may check into CrossFit in a couple of months.

Mike McLaney

[LD395]

Since I started Crossfit back in May, I've had great gains in controlled swing speed.  I mainly contribute this to the more explosive Oly lifts that Crossfit incorporates: snatch, power snatch, cleans, & clean and jerks.  Over heard squats have done a ton for my total core stability. The power lifting lifts, dead lifts, back & front squat, and bench, have contributed a lot of over all power.  The gymnastic movements have given me a lot more body control.  I still can't do a muscle up though...   The intensity of it has greatly increased my stamina as well. 

[dodgerguru]

I would have to respectfully disagree with the fact that larger muscles do not lead to hitting the ball farther.  If you look at baseball as an example, I think that Jose Canseco, Mark McGuire, and Barry Bonds, to name a VERY FEW, would be examples of larger muscles working better to hit the ball longer.  You still need flexability, but more power means you can hit the ball farther.  I am sure that there is a point of diminishing returns, but I think that point is farther out there than most of us want to believe.  I believe that larger muscles will lead to longer drives, as long as you also train the muscles to react quickly.  It just seems to be basic physics.  If it did not work, you would see more skinny baseball players. 

Mike Hendrickson

[littlemike777]

That's true, just hasn't worked for me. Prob cause I spend 5 - 6 days a week in the gym, and about 4 hours a month hitting balls. And all 3 of the guys you mentioned have admitted to taking AAS or PH's ... maybe that would help? Nah, LDers don't juice ... 

[thedanman40]

You can train in the gym all that you want but it will not make a difference if you do not go out and hit balls. My advice is get as fast as you can with proper mechanics and then see where you stand and after that focus on getting stronger. I am 6'4 180 and do not lift weights but still create a ton of speed. I doubt i can even bench my weight. I am not saying getting stronger doesnt help but look at the guys mentioned, bonds, mcguire, and even miller.... They were fast before they got huge and built it up from there. Although i do not know Millers past Im guessing he was plenty fast before he got big. They knew how to hit it hard before bulking up. Keep getting stronger but if you really want to hit the ball longer, you have to find your swing.

[swift16]

I agree that bigger muscles will allow you to hit further but like I said because they are larger doesnt mean they are able to hit it further based on that. It is the muscles that are used for the swing that make them able to hit it further, i.e. Forearms, legs, core, and transfer of power. Yes larger muscles make you hit it further but the right larger ones.

[AArdvark]

That is a great post by Mr. Beckman.